Final roundup. Sorry to keep going on and on about Harukanaru Toki no Naka de 4, I’m just so irritated by it all, and writing helps me get it out of my system. This is the last post, I promise.
The Good
1. Lovely art. The character designs, monster designs, the backgrounds, the CGs, all gorgeous. Shame about the repeated scenery though.
2. Decent music. I played for 40 hours and never muted it, that’s gotta count for something.
3. Excellent voice-acting. Everyone did an absolutely stellar job. Otome game makers seem to spend a lot of money on “star” VAs for their games, and this time they definitely got their money’s worth. However the game is not fully-voiced or even close to it, so maybe they should have spent the money on cheaper actors so they could afford to voice the whole thing?
4. Easy to replay because of the chapter-skipping and text-forwarding system. If you play your cards right the first time you won’t have to play chapters 1-3 again.
5. The story can change drastically depending on which character you pursue. The events, the people who join you and even the final boss change. It’s like Tactical Guild in that respect. And like Tactical Guild, some of the plot developments are quite nonsensical, as I explained at copious length in a previous post.
6. You can get endings for many of the side characters as well. The catch is that you have to complete a main character’s route first. E.g. if I’d really wanted Ayuki I could have gotten him after Oshihito’s ending. Since some of the main routes are so short on logic, though, maybe the effort put into minor routes should have been poured into those instead.
7. Good replay value because of the above. Getting all the cutscenes and all the CGs will keep you busy for a while. I’d estimate about 40-70 hours if you’re a fast reader with a guide.
8. I actually like the fact that Chihiro feels no compunction about killing enemy soldiers and that she adapts to her new role so quickly. It’s highly unnatural for a high school girl to take so readily to politics and mass murder (and the absence of cellphones and running water), but at least it saved us the usual whining and angsting about stuff she’s going to end up doing anyway.
The Bad
1. They wasted a perfectly good battle system. They had a nice elemental system going on there with skills and summons and combo attacks and other stuff, but there’s no one to use it on. Random battles all play out exactly the same: you belt out your strongest combo and heal up at one of many, many healing spots. Any story battle you’re supposed to win will be piss-easy. Any battle you are NOT supposed to win will ALSO be easy, but it will end after a few turns and the game will pretend you were losing anyway.
2. While the character designs and background art are nice, the 3D characters on the screen are small and awful. They move terribly as well.
3. Even with the fast-forward button at max speed, it still takes a while to go through scenes you’ve already seen. Plus you still have to do all the walking and choosing yourself, so it’s limited. I lost count of the number of times I played chapter 4 and 5, and I fought the Black Dragon at least 6 times. A “Play like I did last time unless something new happens” function would be most welcome.
4. Forget the Black Dragon: the real villain of most routes was Lady Sai, and she got away with it every single time. She plots to let Nagi kill himself, she set up the Black Dragon as the national guardian, she imprisons Chihiro, she tries to get Kazahaya killed (because he’s getting too close to Chihiro, but somehow she’s not bothered by the Futsu-Chihi romance in another route) etc etc. Sure, things work out regardless, but the hateful old bat always gets off scot-free. No fair!
5. Lots and lots of loading, even with data install. Probably the worst I’ve seen on the PSP so far. Or maybe I was just spoiled by Phantasy Star Portable.
6. Yet another final boss that thinks humans must be destroyed because they’re cruel and destructive. It’s one thing if the boss is a human who has presumably had a hard life, but this is a dragon god. What business is it of yours if we want to kill each other? Butt out!
7. The “protagonist in another world” and “stranger becomes rebel leader” stories” have been told before, and in much better ways. In the time it takes to play this game, you can watch Now and Then, Here and There, Twelve Kingdoms and Utawarerumono back to back and get an even better experience. The fact that the major antagonists of the game, the Tokoyos, can vanish without a trace on at least two routes without the matter even being commented on shows how little importance the writers placed on sense and consistency anyway.
8. Chihiro is hard to relate to. She’s inconsistent. Sometimes she wants to protect her country, other times she just wants to save her friends. First we’re told she has amnesia, then she’s all up in “Princess” mode of a country she can’t even remember. Sometimes she’s shaking in her boots before the enemy, at other times she’s standing up to a dragon. Then right back to the quaking. I can’t get under the skin of someone whose personality I can’t pin down.
9. The routes vary wildly in terms of romantic-ness. Tooya starts calling you his wife from the prologue and Kazahaya is constantly finding excuses to touch you (brr). At the other end of the spectrum, there’s Nagi-Chihiro’s “bickering siblings” and Oshihito-Chihiro’s “barely even friends” relationships. In the latter cases it’s really not clear how the romance came about or what she sees in them and vice-versa. They’re all friends, trying to get along, then there’s a huge jump and suddenly they’re in madly love. It’s not convincing at all.
The Ugly
1. The game works on a “flag” system, which I detest. I prefer an affection system, which basically means you just have to get a guy to like you and presto, you’ve got it made. Here you have to get all of a character’s events, at the right time, in the right order or you’ll miss their ending. In fact, if you get too many events for another guy, you’ll miss their route anyway. While there’s a star system that shows how they feel about Chihiro, it makes no difference to the outcome.
2. Problem #1 wouldn’t be so bad if not for the fact that it’s impossible to get anyone without a guide. There’s almost no way to trigger all of a certain character’s events without knowing them in advance. The only way you could do it is if a) You got very, very lucky or b) If you checked every single location on the map every single time something new happened. That can mean visiting up to 15 different spots every time you move the story forward the least little bit. That’s crazy. I tried it, and believe me, it sucked.
3. Nonsensical developments on some routes. I already went into detail about all the things wrong with Nagi’s and Futsuhiko’s routes in the last post. Major bad guys vanishing without a trace, major sources of angst being completely ignored, what happens next never being explained, etc.
4. Some questions still remain at the end. By rights they should have been answered at least in the default route, since that’s what most players are likely to get first. These are questions I had based on the routes I did (Chihiro solo, Tooya, Nagi, Futsuhiko, Oshihito), so if the answers are revealed in another route and you know them, do share.
- What’s with the white kirin at the beginning of the game? Chihiro says he’s the first god she ever spoke to, but what’s that got to do with anything? [never mind, a spoiler site just told me the kirin is Kazahaya. Bleeegghhhh]
- The white dragon. Does he even exist? None of the routes so far have told me why Chihiro can’t hear his voice.
- What’s up with the Raja and the black dragon? How did they get in touch, how did he get possessed, what was he trying to achieve, why is Chihiro such a threat to him?
- How did Kazahaya and Nagi get together before going to the modern world? i.e. why did those two end up with Chihiro and not anyone else? If they didn’t know each other before, then how did the 10-year old Nagi just happen to end up at/near the palace in time for the invasion and why did Kazahaya take him along to the other world?
- What war did Nagi’s master die in and why is he doomed to wander the road to the land of dead forever?
- What bugged me most: How are the romances going to play out after the story ends? We are told the princess is not allowed to fall in love without the dragon’s permission. So apart from Chihiro’s endings with Nagi and Ashvin, who are also royalty and can presumably work something out politically… there’s no future for any of her other relationships. They’re going to date until it’s time for her to marry, and then they’re going to have to break up.
- “The power of true love will win out!” No it won’t. Nagi and Futsuhiko’s routes both showed that Chihiro is a helpless puppet and figurehead, controlled by Lady Sai and the rest of her officials. If she doesn’t do what they want, they’re fully capable of confining her indefinitely or finding a replacement. When you look at it that way, the romantic endings where Chihiro becomes queen are actually BAD endings. ((o_o))
5. It seems most questions relating to the actual world worldview (miko, dragons, world destruction) are only answered on Kazahaya’s route, and possibly also on Hiiragi’s. In other words, the other guys are just tasty side dishes. Maybe that’s just how the Harutoki series works, but it pains me to realize almost all the guys could be removed from the story and everything would go on as normal with only minor changes. Tooya, Sazaki and Nagi, definitely. Oshihito and Futsuhiko are slightly more important but not irreplaceable. That leaves Kazahaya, Hiiragi and Ashvin as the only revelant ones. And the ones I can’t stand the most. And you wonder why I didn’t like this game…
And so on, and so forth. Good, now I’ve finally got everything out of my system. The diverging stories were interesting enough to keep me playing for 40 hours, but I can’t say I enjoyed myself or that it was a good game. The flaws, especially the nonsensical story developments and repetitive battles, made it hard to enjoy most of the time.
However with a better thought-out story and a more relevant battle system, the series could be worth playing. If I’m lucky, the previous games were better and HTND4 just messed things up. Either that or Koei learned from their mistakes and made HTND5 even better. So I won’t toss the whole series out just yet because of one bad installment, I’ll try another one when I get the chance.
Phew!
HTND3 was supposed to be the best in the series. No idea about HTND5.
Hmm, you’re right. I did notice that many of the reviews on Amazon.jp complained that it didn’t live up to HTND3. It’s possible for a game to not be as good as its predecessor and still be a decent game, but HTND4 didn’t even manage that.
Oh man.. 8) See, Kazahaya, Hiiragi and Ashvin were my favourites (along with Tooya) – I can see why you don’t like this game when you can’t stand them.
I guess 4 is my favourite because it looks just right. The 3D parts probably look better on a TV screen (via Wii or PS2) than the tiny PSP screen, but I’ve never played the PSP version, so I can’t tell how it compares to the other versions. The lack of full voice acting is pretty disappointing – the voice actors of the guardians are the same in every Harutoki game, at least for 1-4 and their spin offs (and the anime), as far as I know. You know, I can’t disagree with anything you said about the game, the good and the bad point. The game certainly has way too many flaws… but it’s still my favourite of the series for some strange reason. I think I just love the battle system, but difficulty should definitely be a lot higher, at least on your first play through. I wish some awesome RPG will be developed some day that uses that kind of battle system. :>
You will probably like 3 a lot better than 4. 3’s heroine is strong and reasonable, the story is much more consistent and the routes are far more fleshed out… tho a few of the guys could be called the main heroes, as some of the others (just like in 4) aren’t that relevant to the overall story, as far as I remember. It’s been over 5 years since I played the game. The battle system was far more simple – I think – and completely in 2D, much like the battles in Devil Survivor.
You know what I’d really like to see? An announcement for Persona 5 with a non-silent MC (silent MCs just feel so bland to me..), whose gender you can choose and different endings (or epilogues after the main story ending) depending on whose relationship level you maxed out. 8) That would certainly be the perfect rpg x dating game to me.
Ayuh, it’s hard to enjoy an otome game when the guys you like least are constantly shoved down your throat.
I liked the battle system as well, but what good is a battle system if you don’t get the chance to use it? I can’t say I blame them too much: the core otome game audience probably doesn’t want any battles at all, much less difficult ones. It’s just a disappointment for me.
Good to hear that 3 makes more sense and has a better main character, but it’ll probably all depend on whether I like the guys or not, which I can’t tell until I actually play it.
Persona 5… I never thought I’d say this, but I’m Persona’ed-out. When I played 3 and 4 I got so excited I actually put money aside to insta-buy whichever console announced P5 and get a pre-order as well (true story). But Atlus has kept me waiting so long and I’ve played so many other SMT/spin-off games in the process that my enthusiasm has waned significantly. Not saying I won’t play it if ever it comes out, but it won’t be a Day One Buy any more.
Lastly, I saw on your blog that you’d pre-ordered Ciel no Surge (it won’t let me comment there without an OpenID, whatever that is). Early console/handheld RPGs tend to be a leeetle bit on the fail side, so I really hope it lives up to the hype!
Ciel no Surge is no RPG tho, not really anyways. I mean, most of the game is still a mystery to me, but as far as I got it, it’s somewhat of Love Plus with only one girl and much more focus on story and fantasy and the goal not being to marry her but save her world. Still, lots of the screenshots and articles made it look/sound like most of the content is about interacting with Ion in a very Love Plus’ish (but more advanced) fashion. What I’m mostly curious about it the fairies you create and the repairing of Ion’s world part. You have to be online to play the game btw – I sure hope this works outside of Japan as well.
Well, Harutoki 3 is set in an alternate sengoku period, so some of the characters are based on historical war lords (there’s Yoshitsune and Benkei as romances for example) but usually the guardians are pretty similar in each game (especially 1 & 2, the character design were almost identical.. they are still pretty similar for 3, but see for yourself: http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/neoromance/haruka/character.htm but they differ character-wise, at least some. It was the first time I liked the blond shota boy.. XD
I really like the designs of 5 tho: http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/haruka5/kazahanaki/ hmm, maybe my bestie can lend me his psp so I can play it some time.. XD I wish they stayed with the 3D battles tho. :/
I’m still hyped for a P5.. and it will definitely be a day one for me, well the English version anyway, I’m pretty sure it will get localised rather quickly by Atlus US (and hopefully with dual audio this time, should it be for the PS3.. I mean, they would be enough space, right? I really liked the US dubs in 3 and 4, but I also very much enjoyed the Japanese dubs as well – since my PS2 was modded I was easily able to download an undubbed version so I could play through the games once with English and once with Japanese voices, but since I have no intention of hacking my (or rather my brother’s) PS3 I’d very much like an dual audio option.. :>) I’m just hoping the huge delay for that game’s announcement is because they put a lot into it – I really hope there will be a male and female MC from the start this time. Oh well, I have P4 The Golden to look forward to for now.. I hope Atlus US will announce a localisation soon.. 8)
I’ll be satisfied if it plays out like Ranshima. It’ll be a real disappointment if you can’t get it to work though. *fingers crossed*
Incidentally I don’t really like romances based on real history…But that’s neither here nor there, since I won’t get round to playing any of them for a while. Still need to recover from this one first. It’s most likely I’ll play 5 before 3 though. It does look nice, if a little too “slick”.
Not saying I’m not interested at all in P5, just not half as crazy as I was even a year ago. Will I play it? Most likely yes. Will I buy it immediately? Most likely no. A localization of P4 Arena isn’t really in doubt though. I mean, Atlus even localized Devil Survivor 2 when the DS was almost dead in America.
I don’t think Ciel no Surge has any stat raising elements.. I’ll blog about it as soon as I get it (if it works… ^^;)
Harutoki 3 is just loosely based on the sengoku era history stuff, there’s demons and the dragons and all that. Well, I’d rather play 5 as well, tho I’ve heard the story isn’t that awesome as well (but it’s supposed to be better than 4).
Atlus already announced P4 Arena, I was talking about P4 The Golden, the Vita version of P4 with a new character and new scenes and items and stuff. 🙂
No stat raising either? Gosh, it’s sounding more boring by the minute. Even Love Plus had an initial stat-raising bit. I’ll be looking forward to your report!
I’m sure P4 the Golden will come over as well. I think Atlus is really getting the hang of this series-milking thing. Even Square-Enix is looking over and going “Dayum!”