It’s been a while since I last wrote about Suikoden II, but in the meanwhile I have made my way slowly and painfully to Rockaxe Town, home of the Matilda Knights. My save file reads 11 hours and 36 minutes.
My verdict is just as the title says: it’s an interesting game, but not interesting enough to actually finish. By which I mean I am fairly interested in what’s going on and how the game ends, but I don’t want to go through the trouble of playing for another 20-30 hours just to find out.
The characters are bland, the battles are tedious, and the backtracking… oh lawd, the backtracking. Before going to Matilda I spent time in Greenhill City, and it was crazy. Walk to the hideout, warp back to town, walk to the hideout again, walk back to town again and then walk back to the hideout AGAIN before getting out of that bloody town. That was the final straw.
I did get some entertainment out of finding typos in the script though:
Nanami: If I thought Riou and Jowy were kiiled by the state
Nanami: I could never have forgived them.
Storekeeper: Don’t waist you money, okay?
Don’t talk to me over familiar. Got it?
Nanami: What? I’m going to! [too]
Circuret
Nanami: Goodnight, Riou
Don’t make decision for me
How can you say that I’m loafing off!
Shu: […]for the blood that has flown[…]
If you see a shinning ball, please buy it for us, okay?
This weather isn’t good for an old man bones…
Runemaster: Attach were?
Blacksmith: Dettach which?
Shin: Lord Teresa. [when did she have a sex change?]
Etc. etc. But minor diversions like that can only take you so far. Luckily for me Suikoden II is old enough and famous enough that there are tons of videos and Let’s Plays out there. Like this one, which recaps virtually every line in the game. The internet is so wonderful.
And that’s it for me and Suikoden II. I think maybe, just maybe, the Suikoden series isn’t for me. I really enjoyed the first game, but III was excruciatingly boring. So much so that I still haven’t finished it. Meanwhile I fairly enjoyed Tierkreis, in spite of all the howling and crying about how it’s not a ‘real’ Suikoden game. At least I managed to finish that. I might check out the new one that came out on the PSP earlier this year, but apart from that I think I’m done with the series as a whole.
~Fin~
Update, i.e. not so Fin+ spoilers – Finished reading the Let’s Play. I am so glad I didn’t continue this game. You know, I actually thought Luca Blight was a pretty awesome villain. Turns out he’s not even the final villain. He goes down 2/3rds of the way through (epically, but still) and the final boss is some stupid rune boss. There’s no way beating down some random monster Necron-style could ever match the satisfaction of taking down the omnicidal maniac of the century, srsly.
Not only that, but once his crazy ass is gone, but you’d expect the war with Highland to be over, right? Sign a treaty, stick to it, everyone’s happy, right? But noooo, for some reason I will never understand, Jowy insists on keeping the war going unless everyone surrenders to Highland. WHAT IS HIS PROBLEM? All the deaths after that are completely his fault. All the Highland and other soldiers that die, Nanami if you don’t get all 108, Silverberg, those two generals of Solon Jhee, everything’s all his fault. AND. HE. HAS. NO. REASON!!!!! Unless his aim was to destroy Highland and cause as much collateral damage as possible while doing so. In which case he succeeded brilliantly and should be applauded. Standing O, smart guy.
Urgh, I’m still raging. The sheer stupidity of the situation is mind-boggling. Konami was obviously prolonging the game just for the sake of prolonging it. It’s the only explanation I can come up with. And I can’t come up with any explanation for the fact that the “best” ending has Riou, Nanami and Jowy all together again, all buddy-buddy like nothing ever happened. “After reuniting in Kyaro, the three friends continue to journey together merrily.” What. The. Hell?! And what about Jillia and Pilika, sent off into exile like nobody’s business, and who he refuses to even talk to in the “good” ending even though it would make them so much happier? Screw them, eh? Screw everyone as long as you’re happy, eh Jowy? Geez.
I don’t think I’ve hated a videogame character like this in quite a while. Why is this game so popular again? =_= Well, no matter. Enough Suikoden for now. As I mentioned above I’d like to try Suikoden: Tsumugareshi Hyakunen no Toki, and since I like SRPGs I’d also like to try Suikoden Tactics. Apart from that I don’t think the series is for me. I can live with that.
I truly enjoyied this game. When I got my hands on it I believe I was up all evening playing it. Ha! Called in sick the following day also!
Lucky you. I don’t think I’ve ever liked a game enough to do that, though I have snuck my DS to work once or twice.
Suikoden II really drags itself out by being created in the era where people believed that “more = better” and went for quantity over quality.
If you’re not a big fan of 2, I don’t think the rest of the series will do much for you. Suiko 4 and 5 are famous for also being glacially paced. I think 1 and Tierkreis are the only games that don’t drag itself and it’s probably unintentional – they were very low-budget, almost “indie-like” games because Konami probably didn’t want to drop money on them just yet.
I kind of find that Suiko’s one of those series that gets overhyped by a rather obsessive fanbase. I don’t think it aged well.
Yeah, I think the pacing is probably what got me down the most. I can play slow, relaxing games, but only when they’re meant to be slow and relaxing. Not when half the continent is supposedly burning up while I’m walking back and forth and back and forth doing nothing important.
The story is pretty good but it doesn’t happen fast enough. Way too much time spent on random search and rescue quests, plus two whole arcs devoted to Neclord (again) and so on.
Ah well, can’t win them all.
I don’t like the end-game of S2, but I think I can explain what they were going for.
On paper, it’s sort of an interesting concept that killing the head honcho in charge DOESN’T end all evil when the guy is just a symptom of the system, not the cause. Luca wasn’t a psychopath straight out of his womb, his motivation was a pretty cliche “His mom was raped by goons and so he became crazy” thing. The goons just so happened to be hired by the City States who weren’t happy about the current truce and that’s why Luca really wants to kill the heck out of them.
Incidentally I can’t remember whether this was actually confirmed in S2 itself, or whether it was “external source” content as in artbooks or the Suikogaiden Visual Novels, which is kind of bad story telling. It IS hinted at in the scene where Luca poisons his dad and then mocks Jillia by telling her “he’s probably not even your real father” though so it’s not invented in external sources.
The situation after Luca’s death is a mirror of the “truce” made by Genkaku and Han. Riou and Jowy may be “friends” and sign a peace treaty now, but as long as all the dicks like the fat Knight leader is around, someone is going to start something and as long as the two factions are “equally” fit for fighting, the war isn’t going to end. Jowy happens to believe that the only way to bring this to an end is for one side to stomp the other so throughly that they would literally be unable to fight.
The irony is that Jowy is a bit too soft to carry out Leon’s plan down to the letter which does in fact lead to much more suffering than intended. He could have pincushioned Riou and Nanami in the “peace treaty conference” just like Leon planned and stomped over the City States but he decided to be wishy washy. Causing Highland to lose was basically his last-ditch action once he realized he kind of blew his chance at winning the war decisively.
As for why he doesn’t talk to the girls at the end, I dunno, seems like this Japanese trope thing where he doesn’t feel he’s “clean” anymore since he’s bloodied his hands so much, I suppose.
I still hate Jowy and I think the last 1/3 of the game is a drag compared to the climax of Luca but I do believe that if the translation wasn’t so bad and the concept was developed a bit better, it might have worked.
Thanks for that spot-on analysis. I think you hit all the points the writers were getting at.
I will say, however, that I didn’t see any evidence that a subsequent peace treaty would be broken. It was crazy old Luca Blight who broke it last time. The rest of the Highland generals were never shown to be particularly hawkish, same with the City States.
Whatever happened to giving peace a chance? Riou and Jowy aren’t the same as Genkaku and Han, they should have at least tried to pull it off. I think it would have made more sense if they did sign a treaty only to have someone start something (maybe the Fat Matilda guy). Then they start fighting again. I could have accepted that.
And if one side had to surrender, why couldn’t Jowy surrender instead? The City States are made up of several cities and several leaders whereas Highland is one state with one leader. Diplomatically it would’ve been far easier for the latter to capitulate, but noooo Jowy wants everything to happen his way on his terms. Only, as you said, he’s too chicken to actually do what it takes.
I’m ranting again… I’ll stop now. Your explanation about Jowy not seeing Jillia and Pilika again makes sense though. It’s all about Jowy, it’s always all about him, what he feels, what he wants, what he thinks is right. So even though it would mean the world to Jillia and Pilika to have him back, if he doesn’t feel up to it then that’s that.
As far as “why doesn’t Highland surrender” goes, I always figured it was because
1) Highland seems to be full of crazy people who sacrifice people to a bloodthristy supernatural wolf god thing.
I don’t even mean the “higher ups” because Jowy later “sacrificed” a Jillia doll in a mock ritual just to placate the citizens.
2) Jowy seems more like a figurehead rather than anyone who has any actual power to do stuff (it seems like Leon is really the one running the show in Highland), actually since he married into his position.
If Jowy surrenders, I suspect the Highland citizens would probably just overrule him.
Granted, I imagine a Highland victory would lead to quite a lot of war crimes.
There’s a secondary reason and this one is more controversial as far as writing goes.
The True Runes are subtly influencing the events in the game to flow in the direction they want. In a certain sense, the true antagonist isn’t Luca or even Jowy, it’s the True Runes and that’s been a theme in all the games up to Tierkreis (because Runes don’t exist in that universe).
The Sword and the Shield are going to fight and they’re going to drag the two nations with them. Even right at the end when you meet Jowy, he still throws himself at you and tries to pick a fight because of it. It’s only in the “true” ending when the runes are combined into its original form can the conflict be “resolved”.
You can see this in Suiko 1 as well. Odessa’s idea to sacrifice herself for a kid (who just HAPPENS to be wandering the sewers), Gremio insisting on going with Tir even though he’s clearly not suited for combat, Teo’s decision to fight until he croaks it rather than surrender, the entire war… the events aren’t really “coincidences” or “a series of unfortunate events”, it’s the Soul Eater wanting to On Nom Nom on souls and influencing events to its liking.
Though I guess the difference is that those characters were written better and thus doesn’t come off as stupid as Jowy does.
Predestination is a theme of the series I think, and was probably influenced from the original novel the games were loosely based on. I know some people don’t quite like the “Well, he was doing stupid things, but it’s because of supernatural influence!” and prefer realism or something, but that’s the way it is.
As far as I could tell, the citizens of Highland were too chicken-**** to stop a strong leader (i.e. Luca) from doing exactly what he wanted to do. The sacrificial ritual always struck me as unnecessary, just more proof that Jowy was a punk.
I think Jowy should have at least tried to surrender, or that the game should have made it clearer that he was a figurehead. I don’t think Leon was actually in control anyway, or Jowy would never have been able to override the order to shoot Riou/Nanami just to save Pilika.
“Jowy isn’t evil. The rune made him do it!” From what I’ve seen of Suikodens 1-3, the true runes are indeed trouble. “The Black Sword makes him attack even when he doesn’t really want to…” It’s entirely possible that this interpretation was correct, but that’s not how the character came across. He seemed remarkably clear-headed from start to finish. I’m reluctant to absolve him of responsibility for his actions because of that.